Main Chat Forum and Cave Diving Database

[arturconrad]

Hi Guys,

I thought it would be some idea to start Main Chat Forum topic in order to keep our part of the forum less messy. What do you think? I mean, look across the forum, there are good few topics which are basically single questions, they could be easily asked here (some general questions etc..).
We can not create separate folders but we can use some topics in the same way, for example every time I see good forecast for Doolin I put a note in Cave diving Training post, there's already Cave buddy post if you look for one etc etc...
What do you reckon?

artur

[Penguin]

I know what you mean about the messiness.  But posting in the main chat area of the forum wouldn't immediately make it clear (perhaps) that it was a cave diving related topic?  Maybe the cave diving forum could be spilt in two, one section for recording exploration reports, the other for general chat that is cave diving related (equipment, buddies, weather, seastates, etc.)?

[pat coughlan]

I know what you mean about the messiness.  But posting in the main chat area of the forum wouldn't immediately make it clear (perhaps) that it was a cave diving related topic?  Maybe the cave diving forum could be spilt in two, one section for recording exploration reports, the other for general chat that is cave diving related (equipment, buddies, weather, seastates, etc.)?

Sounds like a good idea what do the admin think?

Pat

[ardhill]

I think I agree with Penguin.

The idea is good Artur, but it would be better for the forum flow in general if it was in a cave part, that way the 'normal' mental technical people wouldn't get confused with post from the cave diving mental people

Funny I was just thinking earlier today that it would be good for a bit of organisation in the cave diving section on here.

Under "Cave Diving" we could have "General Chat" as the immediate forum, then sub sections of

"Trip Reports" which, I do believe should be kept separate from wrecks, as researching caves is so difficult in Ireland with so little information recorded anywhere except for a few outdated bits in some old books.

"Planned Trips" would be good for people looking for buddies or information for an area they want to explore, or when you give us the heads up on good weather for Doolin for example.

Just my thoughts

[Penguin]

Seperating reports would be a good idea.  However trip reports sounds too tame, exploration reports sounds better! 

[arturconrad]

HEH Guys

I meant THIS topic to be MAIN CHAT FORUM, that's why I called it like that
Obviously separate Main/General Chat Forum in cave diving section would do the job even better

Well, but you see my point - I'd love to keep exploratory part tidy and clear.
I have only cleaned some old posts of mine by incorporating them into right exploratory topics so now there's only one topic on one cave or system.
I was wondering if you could do the same with FMC/Carrickmacross area  or maybe just continue one of them ( there are three right now I guess)

artur

[ardhill]

HEH Guys

I meant THIS topic to be MAIN CHAT FORUM, that's why I called it like that
Obviously separate Main/General Chat Forum in cave diving section would do the job even better

Ahh, so we are all talking about the same thing then, just a misunderstanding of written words.

Well, but you see my point - I'd love to keep exploratory part tidy and clear.
I have only cleaned some old posts of mine by incorporating them into right exploratory topics so now there's only one topic on one cave or system.
I was wondering if you could do the same with FMC/Carrickmacross area  or maybe just continue one of them ( there are three right now I guess).

Can Admin join them up?
 I didn't think we as ordinary members had the facility to do that - either join up or delete posts. I suppose we could copy & paste information to one thread then let the others 'fall off' the forum. Maybe mark the first post of the 'old' threads with a link to the new updated thread with all the information.

Penguin as you have started most if not all of them, you could do that and split them into FMC / Quarry Rising into one thread, then Tiragarvin into another etc. And I could do nothing

[Penguin]

HEH Guys

I meant THIS topic to be MAIN CHAT FORUM, that's why I called it like that

A thread though is not so obvious as a seperate forum.  And it will likely change titles all the time, and be too hard to scan through unlike a forum where you can read all the thread headings. 

Obviously separate Main/General Chat Forum in cave diving section would do the job even better

Yep, definitely.   

Well, but you see my point - I'd love to keep exploratory part tidy and clear.
I have only cleaned some old posts of mine by incorporating them into right exploratory topics so now there's only one topic on one cave or system.
I was wondering if you could do the same with FMC/Carrickmacross area  or maybe just continue one of them ( there are three right now I guess)

artur

Penguin as you have started most if not all of them, you could do that and split them into FMC / Quarry Rising into one thread, then Tiragarvin into another etc. And I could do nothing

Err, err...  Maybe...  But what about the (sightly) off-topic posts? 

Or i might just stick in links to the updates. 

EDIT: Which i have done - any use? 

I'll have a think...

One benefit to having each exploratory trip in a new thread would mean that following for info might be easier, whereas one catch-all thread might become bogged down in banter? 

EDIT: Has anyone asked admin if it would be possible to have two sub-forums?

[admin]

We are reading and thinking and mind melding between ourselves on all topics of a Spring Cleaning nature. 

We are delighted that such active contributors of this forum are making suggestions with the layout.

We are aware that some forums are highly active such as this one and deserve to be expanded.

Other forums seem to be dormant and will be combined back into more general topics.

We'll get back to the cave divers very soon with news on their suggestions.

[arturconrad]

I'll have a think...

One benefit to having each exploratory trip in a new thread would mean that following for info might be easier, whereas one catch-all thread might become bogged down in banter? 

The only benefit to having each exploratory trip in a new thread  that I can see is that you can have fancy title for each trip  - which is fun at the beginning but after 7 or 8 trips to the same spot you might see where I was coming from. Unless you assume most of your projects will be quick, short and instantly successful.

Bogged down in banter - I know what you mean  but it's up to us isn't it? Maybe we should think twice if we don't have anything interesting to say...   (heh, I can already imagine a riposte to that..

Well, that was only suggestion. I will keep my posts this way anyway.

Cheers

artur

[Penguin]

The only benefit to having each exploratory trip in a new thread  that I can see is that you can have fancy title for each trip  - which is fun at the beginning but after 7 or 8 trips to the same spot you might see where I was coming from.

I see what you mean, but... 

Unless you assume most of your projects will be quick, short and instantly successful.

I've now learnt otherwise... 

Bogged down in banter - I know what you mean  but it's up to us isn't it? Maybe we should think twice if we don't have anything interesting to say...

Well it's part of the fun! 

Well, that was only suggestion. I will keep my posts this way anyway.

I'll try to cross-reference posts on the same caves in future and think about updating existing threads if there wasn't much progress to report to justify a new thread.  It seems to work but then i'm biased... 

Looking through the Monaghan material it is too difficult to try and separate out the material on Tiragarvan River from Aphuca River.  I'll try and keep reports on these separate too now to avoid confusion. 

Al

[admin]

We've been consolidating and condensing some of the other forums in order to reduce the overall number in anticipation of an extension in this forum.

Before we make the change there is something we would like to discuss:

We wish to make the point that this is a forum / bulletin board / discussion group - it is an application designed to promote conversation. Conversation also includes responses like "well done dude!" which perhaps dilute the high information purity of an original posting such as one of the cave exploration articles.

It is inevitable and this site encourages its members to post and say well done. In fact it encourages its members to post and say anything they like including possibly taking the thread off topic. This behavior is inevitable and countless instances can be seen on this and other (lesser  ) forums. So it may be an impossible dream to keep the threads very pure due to the nature of the beast.

However we have the technology....

There are other applications that may be installed on this site which perhaps might be better suited to keep a running log of what exploration has been done to date at various sites e.g. wiki software

Originally we had contemplated installing a wiki on this site to record and accumulate information on the wrecks in the waters around Ireland but there are sites that already do similar and besides its hard to get info such as marks from tight lipped wreckies.  However it might be very useful for collaborative documenting of development of a cave site by a group of divers.

There are also extensions that can installed on this forum to set up blog like categories for users so that divers can document on an individual level what they get up to.

There are full blown blogging applications that we can set up that keep "articles" at a higher level and comments separately.

Alternatively we can appoint a cave diving moderator to this group to "sort" the information.

But we really would like to keep the ability of the ordinary punter to say "well done dude!". Its a fundamental right and keeps the good vibe going.

Let us know what you would like us to do.

[ardhill]

I am all for the "Well done Dude" comments, otherwise why would we go through all that grief, pain and wrecking kit if we couldn't get the public acclaim

I also know the benefit of keeping running threads of actual information. You see with Caves, there is very little published information except from a few old books, and they aren't always very accurate. Also a lot of the information is for 'dry' cavers, not cave 'divers'. I do believe that cave diving in Ireland has a place to further develop, when it previously has not been. I also believe it would be excellent to have an online facility somewhere that the actual divers can collate some of this newly discovered information. Thus, the clean thread needs to be able to be updated.

In England, if you want to do what we are doing, you can join the CDG and have access to the articles in print from their members, but not so in Ireland.

So, maybe a place where we can collate information in one 'clean' thread, and have an 'attached' thread for comments and thoughts from others. Though it would be good if anyone can add to the 'information' thread. For example if another cave diver were to read what had been done in Fin McCool's cave for instance, then managed to push further. It would be beneficial if he/she could add to the 'information' thread.

[Penguin]

I am all for the "Well done Dude" comments, otherwise why would we go through all that grief, pain and wrecking kit if we couldn't get the public acclaim

I also know the benefit of keeping running threads of actual information. You see with Caves, there is very little published information except from a few old books, and they aren't always very accurate. Also a lot of the information is for 'dry' cavers, not cave 'divers'. I do believe that cave diving in Ireland has a place to further develop, when it previously has not been. I also believe it would be excellent to have an online facility somewhere that the actual divers can collate some of this newly discovered information. Thus, the clean thread needs to be able to be updated.

In England, if you want to do what we are doing, you can join the CDG and have access to the articles in print from their members, but not so in Ireland.

So, maybe a place where we can collate information in one 'clean' thread, and have an 'attached' thread for comments and thoughts from others. Though it would be good if anyone can add to the 'information' thread. For example if another cave diver were to read what had been done in Fin McCool's cave for instance, then managed to push further. It would be beneficial if he/she could add to the 'information' thread.

I think what you want is an updated sump index!!! 

I write threads/posts for the fun of doing it, and in the hope that others get enjoyment from reading them.  If they get useful info, well that is a side effect.  If they go and see for themselves, they want their head seen to. 

My vote is keep ITD cave diving forum as it is, it's working and it's interesting and it's fun.  And now that we have separate sub-forums (thanks admin!) things should be a bit cleaner.  Cross-referencing to other threads and posts where necessary would keep the overall number down and make it easy for someone to follow exploration - but equally keeping one thread per system going is also a good idea.  But if there is to be some sort of overall info cache (i.e., a new Irish Sump Index) i think that needs to be separate from the forums, some sort of collation of info as things are confirmed.  A wiki-thingy or blogs would be a better way for this i think. 

Just my 2p! 

[ardhill]

I think what you want is an updated sump index!!! 

Indeed, but an oline one tha can be kept up to date by the divers who are there.

My vote is keep ITD cave diving forum as it is, it's working and it's interesting and it's fun.  And now that we have separate sub-forums (thanks admin!) things should be a bit cleaner.

I have no problem with that as a general, but a section (sub forum or otherwise) for information would be very useful.

But if there is to be some sort of overall info cache (i.e., a new Irish Sump Index) i think that needs to be separate from the forums, some sort of collation of info as things are confirmed.  A wiki-thingy or blogs would be a better way for this i think.

 
You see, you are thinking like me - I am sure that is worrying

Sure keep he cave forums as it is, but a separate bit - wikki, sub-forum, bloggy thingy or whatever for information on the caves. Hey, it may even work to create one for Irish wrecks too!